Updates and Notes regarding "In Search of the Vertical Green Bend Sinister." First some clarifications. The "vertical green bend sinister" is a misnomer. In heraldic terms "vert." means "green." Some have confused it with vertical. I have contributed to this fallacy in my introduction to the article and in my genealogical notes on Rev. Richard Carpenter that I gathered from Raymond George Carpenter. This article is to help clear up some items relating to the Rev. Richard Carpenter. I will assume the reader has read the article by Fay Charpentier-Ford. (1) Please remember that she tried to present a description of the Coat of Arms as given her, while acknowledging the possibility of error. Since her article, there have been several questions regarding the accuracy and placement of the "bend sinister, vert." on the Coats of Arms that are descended from the Rev. Richard Carpenter. He was born circa 1468 and died in 1503. He is listed in the CE CD 2001 as number 2781.(2) In addition his connection to the Rehoboth Carpenter Branch has not been confirmed. More on this later. One of the biggest problems is that the original will is not present at the location assigned to it. Specifically, "The Wiltshire Wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (1383-1558)" and in the folio called "25 Blamyr" (3) kept in Trowbridge, England. Searches will continue. What we have left is notes from this will that was written in latin. These notes were complied by Harry F. Rogers and given to Raymond George Carpenter. (4) The notes and a transcript of the will are supposed to reside at the Carpenter Museum in Rehoboth, MA. However, it has yet to be cataloged or found. (4a) Richard Carpenter's will (per the notes) was dated 19 August 1503 and proved 28 September 1503. He requested burial in chancel of the Ramsbury Church, Wiltshire. Most of these basic notes are confirmed in A.B. Emden's "Biographical Register of the University of Oxford to A.D. 1500." (5) In addition (per the notes) the will mentions sons Robert and Peter as sons. Robert, the eldest son, was to receive his Coat of Arms "with a bend sinister, vert." Peter was to receive certain properties. There is no mention of a wife. At the bottom of the will (or noted in a different hand) was a description of the Coat of Arms. "Paly of six, argent and gules on a chevron, azure, three cross crosslets, or." The question arrises of how or why this description of a Coat of Arms appears at the bottom or noted in a different hand. Please note that there was no mention of a Coat of Arms for Peter. Unless we know for absolutely certain who added the description of the arms (Paly of six, ...), we don't know if that was the coat of arms that Richard was passing down, or someone's guess. The notes could have been added by someone assuming or attributing that coat of arms to Richard but with no justification. Harry Rogers may have added that notation, and if he had no basis to do so, Richard might have used an entirely different coat of arms. Perhaps the original will has an illustration of the arms, or perhaps his tombstone or some other records confirms the arms he used, but these notes, by themself, is not enough proof. Those notes also indicate that because Richard Carpenter was a Catholic Priest, his coat of arms of three cross crosslets derived from John Carpenter the Younger of London would pass down to his descendants with a green bend sinister or bend sinister, vert. Even though priests were required to be celibates, it was not unusual in those times for church officials of all ranks to have families named in their wills, though of course no wife was named. The assumption is that the adequate proof can be given for this ancestry and Coats of Arms. Without the original will to compare to, we have have a possible translation error in the phrase "bend sinister, vert." The will may have indicated "bendlet sinister, vert." Again without the original will we are stuck with a heraldic problem, because "bend sinister" is not a mark of illegitimacy. "However, the priest's intention was presumably to difference the coat of arms with a mark of bastardy, the best known such mark being the charge popularly (but slightly erroneously) known as a ' bend sinister'. A more appropriate term for the charge is 'bendlet sinister couped' or 'baton sinister' - in other words, a narrow bend sinister not reaching to the corners of the shield. So that is probably what the priest envisaged, but if he actually stipulated a 'vert bend sinister' (which can reasonably be interpreted as a 'bend sinister Vert'), then that would entail a broader stripe being placed right across the shield (from bottom left to top right). In either event, I have no doubt that a bend added as a difference in this way would fully debruise the existing arms and therefore be above rather than below the chevron." (6) It should be noted that "a unilateral declaration by the priest would not have been sufficient to allow his illegitimate children to bear the arms in this manner. Explicit royal sanction for the differencing would have needed to be sought." (6) This means the "bend sinister, vert." or "bendlet sinister, vert." should have been registered with the College of Arms. A search at the College of Arms would be needed to either prove or disprove "Explicit royal sanction..." Since a "bend sinister" above the chevron does cover half of the chevron and two of the three cross crosslets, I agree with Fay Charpentier that this may be artistically wrong. However, there is no such thing as "artistically wrong" in heraldry, it may be displeasing or unattractive to an individual, but if it's the correct usage, then it is correct. Personal taste does not enter into the proper display of the coat of arms, only in the creation of such a set of arms. The "bendlet sinister" or "baton sinister" has been used as a mark of illegitimacy. Fay Charpentier implies in her article the possibility that the "vertical green bend sinister" may be in error. She notes the bendlet and baton in her article. (1) The following web pages have examples of the "baton sinister." http://www.hereditarytitles.com/Page36.html http://www.hereditarytitles.com/Page48.html "Regarding the size of the baton, that is a matter of "artistic license." I have seen several different renderings of various batons sinister and there is only one requirement - the baton must terminate before it reaches the edge of the shield. Otherwise, it would become a "bend sinister" (or "bendlet sinister" if drawn very narrowly.) The existing batons sinister for Royal Bastards are never a single color, but are usually charged with objects (like roses) or in alternating color patterns. One could guess this is because most of the "basic" baton designs were previously used to represent other Royal Bastards." (7) Remember that "artistic license" must be set within the heraldic limits. IF the "bendlet sinister" or "baton sinister" is what was in the will, what we have is a fairly thin line compared to a "bend." The examples show it like a baton and narrow enough to so not to obscure the main elements of the Coat of Arms. See the example of this on the web page at: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/r/John-R-Carpenter/PHOTO/0017 photo.html Now going back to the will and the notes that we have. Robert gets the modified Coat of Arms and Peter does not. What can this mean? It may mean that Robert, the eldest son, was the bastard. Peter who received properties was the rightful heir and was born in wedlock. This implies that Rev. Richard Carpenter did marry legally so that his heir could receive properties and his title. Thus Robert's (the eldest son, but a bastard) Coat of Arms should then be something like the following: "Paly of six, argent and gules on a chevron, azure, three cross crosslets, or, over_all a baton sinister, vert." (7) Peter's (the youngest but presumably, if the above assumptions are correct, the heir of legitimate birth) Coat of Arms would be: "Paly of six, argent and gules on a chevron, azure, three cross crosslets, or." The Rev. Richard Carpenter's ancestry seems, if properly attributed, to indicate he was a descendant of John Carpenter, the elder, who was the eldest brother to John Carpenter, the younger, who was the Noted Town Clerk of London in the early 1400s. However, his relationship to the Rehoboth Branch of the Carpenter Family is now in question. Indeed the question was in print in 1974 when the Carpenter Family Association published its work that included the ancestry of the Rehoboth Carpenter Branch. (8) While we may have a relationship of some type, until it is proven and properly documented, it is still a guess. Current speculation and efforts seem to indicate a different line of ancestry from Captain William Carpenter (b. 1605) to whom his father was. Until this relationship is confirmed the entire ancestral line back in time is speculative or unproven. (9) As further research is done and more data (like wills) is shared and confirmed, the clearer the picture will become on the Carpenter Ancestry. As we find mistakes, AND WE WILL FIND THEM, let us work positively to correct them. I have made more than my fair share of mistakes and I appreciate all that have made the effort to correct them. Fay Charpentier should be praised for bringing forth the question and trying to answer it. That she started with faulty data and that it lead to an erroronus conclusion is part of learning. I encourage everyone to share the data that they have. In this way we all contribute on behalf of the Carpenter Family. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA May 2002 E-Mail at: jrcrin001@cox.net Web Page at: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/r/John-R-Carpenter/index.html ******************************************* (1) In Search of the Vertical Green Bend Sinister by Fay Charpentier-Ford. See the article on the following web page: http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Faye04.html (2) The CE CD 2001 is the Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters 2001 - A compac disc compiled by John R. Carpenter. See the web page at: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/r/John-R-Carpenter/index.html (3) (WN & Q) Wiltshire Notes and Queries, Pages 256-258 and 293 which lists The Wilshire Wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (1383-1558): "1503 Carpenter, Rychard, D.C.L. and priest, Remmesbury (= Ramsbury, Wilts) (Wilts?) Mixbury, Oxford. (Oxfordshire) 25 Blamyr." (4) English Genealogist Harry F. Rogers of Abington, England was related to Raymond George Carpenter, now of Seminole, FL. His searching of the various Carpenter wills was done in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In 1974 their work was published. See (8) (4a) The Carpenter Museum is now part of the Rehoboth Antiquarian Society. The Society is in the process of cataloging papers and material it has gathered. Raymond George Carpenter donated at least eight boxes on material to the Carpenter Museum several years ago. Rehoboth Antiquarian Society - P. O. Box 2 - Rehoboth, MA 02769 Editor: David A. Pemmerl - l44 Danforth St. -Rehoboth, MA 02769 E-MAIL: Dpemmerl@aol.com (5) "A.B. Emden's 'Biographical Register of the University of Oxford to A.D. 1500" details provided by Mrs. Clare Brown of the Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts - Bodleian Library - Broad Street - Oxford OX1 3BG - England by Bruce E. Carpenter in a e-mail dated Friday, 15 Dec 2000 From: Bruce E. Carpenter (6) P.L. Dickinson, Richmond Herald, College of Arms, Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4BT from an e-mail dated: Monday, April 29, 2002 From: "P.L. Dickinson" (7) Michael Moore from an e-mail dated Tuesday, April 30, 2002. From: http://www.hereditarytitles.com/ Dedicated to the Hereditary Titles of the British Empire. (8) "THE ANCESTRY AND DESCENDANTS OF COL. SOLOMON CARPENTER OF GOSHEN, NEW YORK" - RESEARCHED, COMPILED & ISSUED BY THE CARPENTER FAMILY ASSN. 1974 ROSEMARY E. BACHELOR From the Introduction to that work is: "Knowing that our ancestor Richard Carpenter hailed from Hereford and had a brother James, whereas William of Hereford was father to James Carpenter of Hereford, we feel Richard was a son of William of Hereford. The differing opinion is that Rev. Richard Carpenter may have been a brother to William of Hereford and thus one generation closer in relation to his uncle, Bishop John Carpenter. William of Hereford's son James was born about 1460 and it seems likely that Richard, who entered Oxford in 1486, was his brother, even though it is possible Richard was his uncle. We do know for certain that our Richard had brothers named James, John and William. Since it is certain that William of Hereford's father was John Carpenter, we should keep an open mind to the possibility that Richard's brother may, indeed, have been William of Hereford and they had a brother John named after their father. There is absolutely no trace of any other Carpenter family in Hereford during this period. This means the crux of our problem is whether Rev. Richard and William of Hereford were brothers or were father and son." (9) See the Carpenter Roots Web Archives. Search Feb-March 2002 at the following web page: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARPENTER *******************************************