Ann Guthrie's Genealogy:Information about James Guthrie, Jr.
James Guthrie, Jr. (b. Abt. 1765, d. Bet. 1830 - 1859)
Notes for James Guthrie, Jr.:1799
Source: A List of the Taxable Property in Captain Robert Hamilton's Company for the Year 1799 (Original Tax List, Sumner County Archives)
Jas Guttrie100MFRR 1Free Pole
[Note: This proves that James was a TN land owner by 1799. James Shannon was the next entry on the tax list, also for 100 acres.]
1800
Source: Robertson County, TN Court Minutes, 1796-1807
July 1800: Name of James Guttery appears on a list of witnesses, "Jas Guttery, witness, proves 2 days attendance, 30 miles travel".
Again, in another case: "James Guttery, 7 days, 120 miles, and John Shannon 4 days , 60 miles".
1801
Source: Sumner County Tennessee Deed Abstracts 1806-1817
p221 Deed 27 Nov 1801
JAMES GUTTRY is listed as a witness to a deed, a sale of land on the RED RIVER.
1805
Source: Caswell County NC Deed Books 1777-1817, Abstracts by Katharine Kerr Kendall
Deed Book O p.247
JAMES GUTHRIES and ROBERT GUTHRIES of Sumner County, TN to Bailor Burch of Person County, NC, for L100, 200 acres on S. Hico adj. George Eubanks, Crisp, Mitchell. 28 Oct 1805. Wit: Isaac Rainey, Wm Mansfield.
[Note: This is the land received by James & Robert as an inheritance in their father's 1801 Orange County, NC Will. This land was sold 5 years before their mother and brothers-in-law sold the remaining 323-1/2 acres.]
Source: Shannon Family Research,Compiled by Roberta Shannon Stimpson
[Reference: Sumner County Deed Book 4, p. 115]
"John Shannon of Sumner County, TN, purchased 320 acres from John Purty of Rockingham County, NC (Indenture 6 Nov 1805, Rec. June 1806) Witnesses: ROBERT GUTRY, JAMES GUTRY, Richard Faucet."
Samuel Marion Shannon, received 160 acres of this land in the estate settlement of his father, John Shannon - Sumner County Deed Book11, p 493, 6 Aug 1828
1809
March 1809 Sumner County Court Minutes for March 1809 report:
"Deed Benjamin Hudson to James Guthrie 560 acres proved by Robert Guthrie and David Guthrie."....Deed Book 4 p. 359
p.130 Deed James Godfrey to Robert Guthrey 222(333?) acres proved by Witheral Latimer & James Guthrie."...Deed Book 4 p.354
[Notes: The James Guthrie listed as a Grantee and Witness in the above documents is James Guthrie Jr.]
1816
Source: Sumner County Tennessee Deed Abstracts 1806-1817
p330 Deed 26 Feb 1816, JAMES GURTHRIE to John Allen, $350, 100 acres onDesha's Creek, a fork of Bledsoe's Creek, beg on the N side sd creek at NW cor James Oldham, & adj Joseph Hodges & Wm Montgomery's lands. [This could be either James Guthrie, Jr or James S. Guthrie]
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
[Listing on the TN US GEN WEB]
1816:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
James Guthrey560Ridge Head Station Camp Creek
Robert Guthrey483West Middle of Red River
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
[Listing on the TN US GEN WEB - Sumner County]
1817:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
James Guthrie--
James Guthrey560Ridge Head of Station Camp Creek
Robert Guthrey483Head West Middle Fork Red River
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
1818:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
Robert Guthrie483on the Ridge Red River
James Guthrie560-
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
1819:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
Robert Guthrie483-
James Guthrie560-
1820
CENSUS
Source: 1820 Tennessee Census
a) James Guthrie01010001000 Wilson County, TN
b) James Guthrie02120121001 Sumner County, TN
c) Robert Guthrie10000113101 Sumner County, TN
d) Robert Guthrie00110100001 Williamson County, TN
e) Westley Guthrie 00010110111 Sumner County, TN
[Notes: Interpretation of the census data on subject "b"
The James Guthrie listed as subject "b" is likely the James Guthrie, Jr. married to Jeane (Smith) Guthrie and family. Their son James Guthrie, III died in 1814. The following were listed in the census for 1820:
2M of 10 and 1M between 16 & 18...........son Joseph (listed twice d/t next category)
2M of 16 and 1M of or over 45.................self James (born in/bef 1775)
2F under 10.........................daus Lorena & Martha
1F of 10 and 1F of or over 45...................wife Jeane (born in/bef 1775)
Subject "a" is probably of another Guthrie line (Henry's???); subject "c" is James Jr.'s brother and subject "e" is James Jr.'s nephew. Subject "d" is also of another line.
[Notes: An updated interpretation of the 1820 US Census Information for James Guthrie of Sumner County, TN. Due to the discovery of son David, it suggests that son Joseph was not listed twice d/t the "between 16 and 18" category. David would have been the second male in the "of 16 and JAMES GUTHRIE 02120121001 SUMNER
2M of 10 and 1M between 16 & 18...........son Joseph (18)
2M of 16 and 1M of or over 45.................self James (~55))
2F under 10.........................daus Lorena (5-9) & Annie (8)
1F of 10 and 1F of or over 45...................wife Jane (45-50)
[Technically, Robert should be in the >26 category. William should be in Joseph's >1616. This could be true if the mysterious "R.H. or Wesley" Guthrie were actually a child in the >10
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
1820:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
Robert Guthrie483On the Ridge
James Guthrie560-
Andrew H. Guthrie--
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
1821:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
R.W. Guthrie100-
James Guthrey560-
Robert Guthrey483-
Andrew H. Guthrie--
Source: Records of the Taxable Property and Polls in Sumner County:
1822:
NameQuantity of LandSituation
James Guthrey560-
Robert Guthrey483-
1830
CENSUS
Source: Sumner County, Tennessee 1830 Census
Listing in the US GEN WEB page for Sumner County
a) 689Gurthery, Robert W. 100001010001
b) 1822Gusthrie, Andrew H. 02100110001
c) 2107GUTHRIE, JAMES00001000100020001
d) 2006Guthrie, Joseph0000110001
e) 1996Guthrie, Robert23000100001
[Notes: The interpretation of the above census information now proves that James Guthrie, Jr. and his wife Jeane were still living in Sumner County, TN in 1830. James is listed as having:
1M of 20 and under 30.........son Andrew H. Guthrie (age23)
1M of 60 and under 70.........James (age~65)
2F of 15 and under 20..........daus. Martha & Lorena (dau. Eunice married in 1829)
1F of 50 and under 60..........wife Jeane
Their son James had died in 1814. Son William had moved to Missouri, presumably with his uncle Robert's family sometime in the previous year. The Andrew H. Gusthrie and Robert W. Guthrie listed are James' nephews. The Joseph and Robert Guthrie listed are his sons. Son Andrew H. Guthrie did not marry until 1839 and was thus probably the son listed for the household as age 20-30.]
Source: Family Tree Maker's Family Archives
Census Index: U.S. Selected Counties 1830
James GuthrieTNSumner County1830
1832
Wilson County1830
1832
Source: 1840 Sumner County, TN US Census (Microfilm)
[Note: The 1840 Census suggests that James' wife Jane Smith Guthrie was alive & living in the household of her son A. H. Guthrie. Both were alive at the time of the 1830 Census. Depositions later given by relatives indicate that both died before 1862. There is no indication of a man of James Guthrie's years living in any Guthrie household in1840, suggesting that he may have died 1830-1840.]
MISCELLANEOUS DATA:
Source: Article by Thelma Pond Womack, an Interview with Sumner Countian Johnny Adcock and his wife Mary Neel Adcock.
Mentions, "All around Dry Fork Creek was land owned by the wealthy Guthrie family, Robert and Wesley being the pioneer settlers. I am told they bought much of their land for 25cents per acre." This is the second source that mentions Robert and Wesley as the pioneer cousins who settled in the area. It contradicts family tradition that "Two brothers married to two sisters were the first to come to Tennessee." Those individuals were of course James Guthrie and his wife Jeane Smith Guthrie along with his brother Robert Guthrie and his wife (Jeane's sister) Mary Smith Guthrie.
It seems likely that BOTH stories can be true. James and Robert, along with their wives and several children probably made the trip across the Cumberland Gap with the Henderson Land Company, making their way across the mountains on ponies, just as family tradition describes. They probably settled for a time in Gallatin. Robert (son of James and Jeane) was possibly born in Orange County, but would have been far too young to purchase land of his own. Wesley (son of Robert and Mary) was born in Gallatin according to the Ancestral File information. Although their parents were the "pioneer settlers" of Tennessee, there is no reason to suspect that Robert and Wesley were not the first to bring their families to the area of Dry Fork Creek.
Source: Direct and Reverse Indexes to Real Estate Conveyances - Sumner, TN
Family tradition states that brothers James and Robert were the first Guthries in Sumner County. It also states that there were two unrelated groups of Guthries in Sumner County. In searching the Real Estate Conveyances, I hoped to prove that J & R were indeed the first Guthries of our branch of the family to arrive in Sumner, not their sons Robert and Robert Wesley. In addition, I needed to verify that the people listed on the land conveyances were indeed of my branch of the Guthrie family and not members of this "second group". I believe that I've been able to do both.
By examining the names of the Grantees and Grantors on the Conveyances I was able to separate out those familiar names from my known family tree and those who were not listed. By comparing the dates and districts, I was able to determine that the earliest listed purchase under the name Guthrie was made in 1803 by Robert Guthrie. This could not have been Robert, son of James as he was only 10 yrs old, nor could it have been Robert Wesley son of Robert as he was only 4 years old at the time of the purchase. However, this information alone did not prove that he was even of my line. The next earliest conveyance was a transfer of land to James Guthrie in 1809. Still nothing yet to prove or disprove any kind of connection to my line. An examination of the names that had no relationship to my family tree showed that the earliest land conveyance was not until 1851 by an Isaac N. Guthrie.
By utilizing the World Family Tree CD, Vol 1, Broderbund, I was able to locate Isaac Newton Guthrie born in 1810 in KY. His family originated with a James Guthrie of Pennsylvania. The next generation, Thomas was born in PA & died in KY. The generation following Thomas was another James born in Fauquier, VA who died in KY. Several of James' children are listed as "of Sumner County". They include a James W. Guthrie who was born in 1806, but no Robert. Another son was Isaac Newton Guthrie who died in Sumner County in 1896. Nine children are listed for Isaac including a James M. Guthrie who was born in 1877, but again no Robert. This family does not show up in Sumner County until about 1830. Those children of James Guthrie, of Fauquier, who are listed as "of Sumner County" are all too young to be the children listed on those earliest deeds.
This evidence allows me to believe that the James and Robert Guthrie listed in the land conveyances for 1803 and 1809 are indeed of my direct line. Further, I have identified the "second group" of Guthries. This places my line of the Guthrie family in Sumner County, TNno later than 1803. James & Jane and their siblings Robert &Mary married in 1791 in Hillsboro, Orange County, NC. The first Guthrie listed in the LDS ancestral file as being born in Sumner was James S. Guthrie (son of R&M) in 1795. Sumner County was formed in 1786. Dry Fork Creek was singled out for settlement as early as 1787. Therefore the Guthries probably arrived in Sumner no earlier than 1792 and no later than 1795. The tradition that the family arrived on ponies over the mountains from VA or (as per Walter T. Durham) with the Henderson Land Company, is yet to be determined.
Land Conveyances listed for James Guthrie include:
GranteeGrantorDateKindAcresDistrictBKPG
JamesBenjamin Hudson 1809Deed560-4359
James et alA.H. Suttle1868Deed180-26283
James, Tr.L&N, RR Co.1858Mtg--24100
(Note: The last two entries for James are probably not James Guthrie, Jr. who married Jeane Smith. James would have been 90-100yrs old. These could be either James S. Guthrie or one of the unrelated Guthries (Isaac's relatives???). The other listings under James are for James I. Guthrie and refer to James & Jeane's grandson James Irvin Guthrie.)
Source: Before Tennessee: The Southwest Territory 1790-1796 by Walter T. Durham
"Although explorers and hunters had roamed the valley of the Cumberland River south of the Virginia-Carolina boundary since the early 1760s, the first family settlements were not made there until the winter of 1779-80. Responding to the promotion of the inveterate frontier land speculator Richard Henderson, several families from the Holston Valley of North Carolina and others from Fort Blackmore on the upper Clinch River in Virginia met at French Lick, since that time the site of Nashville. Their new homeland was in the heart of the Indian hunting ground jointly held by the Cherokee, Chickasaw, and Shawnee."
[Notes: This was Henderson's Transylvania Land Company. The settlers who came to this frontier country were comprised of at least 256 men, signers of the Cumberland Compact, and their families. The settlement at French Lick, established in April of 1780,was first called Nashborough, but in 1784 became Nashville.]
"The Act of 1801, designating Gallatin as the name of the county seat town to be laid out, withstood opposition, and the town was established the following year."
Source: Copies of Documents provided by AOL Contact - M. K. Hare
* Deposition of Richard Pond, James L. Shaw & Wm Jackson of Sumner County Tennessee taken in an order of reference in the cause of Andrew Smith & et als vs the heirs of Robt Smith et als in the Chancery Court at Pulaski.
Richard Pond being sworn deposes as follows
Question 1 What is your age place of residence & c and how long have you resided
Ans - I am 65 years of age. I have lived in the 18th District of Sumner County TN 45 years or more.
Question 2 Were you acquainted with Jms Guthrie and his wife Jane (whose maiden name was Jane Smith) who resided in Sumner County many years ago, if you were acquainted with them state whether they are living or dead if dead when did they die and whether Jane Guthrie died before the Summer of 1862 or afterwards.
Ans - I was aquainted with them both, they both died before 1862.
Question 3 State the names of the children of Jane Guthrie, the names of those living in the Summer of 1862 and those that died before, if any of them died leaving children, state their names and residence, if any of the daughters are married the names of their husbands, and where they reside.
Ans - Elizabeth Martin is still living. Sarah Carr is still living the last I heard of her. They are both children of James and Jane Guthrie. Wm H. Guthrie is a son of James and Jane Guthrie died in December 1872. he resided in Mo. nad at the time of his death and left a wife and several children. RH Guthrie another son of James and Jane is still living and resided in Sumner County TN. Mrs Richard Pond, a daughter of the said James and Jane Guthrie died the 20th day of December 1862, leaving 8 children at the time of her death. Robert Guthrie another son of the said James and Jane Guthrie died before 1862. Mrs. Lattimore, another daughter of the said Guthries has been dead about 20 years, Mrs. L. Harden another daughter has been dead about 15 years, Joseph Guthrie another son has been dead about 20 years. David and James, two other sons died about 40 years ago. The rest of the children that I was not acquainted with but know they died before 1862.
Question 4 If any of the children of the said James Guthrie living in the Summer of 1862, have since died, state their names when they died, if they left children, the names and residences of same, if any were married the names of the husbands.
Ans - They have. Annie Pond died 1862 Dec 12th. Wm Guthrie died is my understanding in 1872. Wm H. Guthrie left 5 children, do not know the names of any of them but one (Ewing) they reside in the State of MO. Mrs. Annie Pond left eight children at her death namely, WG, John S, SF, AJ, James R, Sarah A, EA, and TE Pond all of whom are living and reside in Sumner County, TN
Question 5 Were you acquainted with Mary Guthrie, who was a sister of Jane Guthrie and was married to the Rev Robt Guthrie if you were acquainted with them state when Mary and Robt Guthrie died if they left children state the names of their children and where they reside.
Ans - I was, think they have been dead twenty or twenty five years, left some children, don't know how many.
Question 6 State the names of the children of the said Mary & Robert Guthrie living in the summer of 1862, if any of them have since died, leaving children state when they died, the names of the children and where they reside, if any are married women state the names of their husbands and where they reside, state the names of all the children of the said Mary living at her death, the names of those who have died since her death, when they died and the names of their children and where they reside.
Ans - I cannot state how many of the children were living in 1862 of the said Robert and Mary Guthrie. I was acquainted with one of the children namely R W Guthrie who lived and died in this county, he died since 1865. I know he had two children, both are still living. Mary married Ewin Guthrie who resides in this county. She and her husband are both still living. I do not know who the other one married. And furhter this deponent saith not.
/s/ Richard Pond
We have heard the above deposition of Richard Pond read and adopt the same as our own.
/s/ Wm Jackson
/s/ JL Shaw
State of Tennessee
Sumner County
The foregoing depositions were taken before me as stated in the caption and reduced to writing by me. And I certify that I am not interested in the cause, nor of kin or counsel of either party and that I sealed them up and put them in the Post Office without them being out of my possession or altered after they were taken.
Given under my hand this the 25th day of September 1873.
/s/ L.W. Barry Clerk
[[[Notes: This document provides a wealth of missing information on James and Jane (Smith) Guthrie and Children. The following changes will be made to the Family Record:
1) Death dates for James and Jane will change from "after 1830" to 1830-1862
2) Adding children: Elizabeth (Guthrie) Martin; Sarah (Guthrie) Carr; David Guthrie; RH Guthrie; Annie (Guthrie) Pond
3) Adding husband "Unknown Harden" for daughter Lorena
4) Adding children of Annie Pond to her family page
Sources: Depositions and letters (incl the one above) given in the case of Andrew Smith et al vs. the heirs of Robert Smith et als.
[Notes: There is major confusion as to the number of J&J's children, being either 11 or 12. Currently, I am listing a son as "R.H. Or Wesley Guthrie" in order to provide space for my notes and musings on the subject. At this point in time my gut feeling tells me that there were only 11 children and that R.H./Wesley is merely a point of confusion on the part of the deponents. All other information on the above added changes seems to be corroberated within the additional letters and depositions in the case.]
More About James Guthrie, Jr.:
Census 1: 1820, Sumner County, TN.
Census 2: 1830, Sumner County, TN.
Court Abstract 1: July 1800, On list of witnesses: Robertson Co., TN.
Court Abstract 2: 27 November 1801, Witness to sale of land on Red River.
Court Abstract 3: 04 January 1802, Brother purchases land in Sumner County.
Court Abstract 4: 06 November 1805, Witness to sale of land to John Shannon of Sumner County.
Died 2: Bet. 1830 - 1862, Sumner County, TN (Probably).142
Emigration 1: Bet. 1791 - 1799, Moves to Middle Tennessee.
Emigration 2: Bet. 1765 - 1770, Ireland to Baltimore, MD to Hillsboro, NC as child with parents.
Enumeration/Tax List 1: 1799, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 2: 1816, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 3: 1817, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 4: 1818, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 5: 1819, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 6: 1820, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 7: 1821, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Enumeration/Tax List 8: 1822, Sumner County, Tennessee.
Property 1: 03 August 1807, Purchases 560 acres on Red River & Station Camp Creek.
Property 2: 1799, 100 Acres, Middle Fork Red River.
Property 3: Bet. 1799 - 1807, Purchases 233 add'l acres on Red River (Presumed).
Property 4: 30 November 1807, Sells to Robert Guthrie 333A on Red River & Station Camp Creek.
Property 5: 1816, 560 AcresRidge Head Station Camp Creek.
Property 6: 26 February 1816, Sells 100 acres on Desha's Creek.
Property 7: 1817, 560 Acres Head Station Camp Creek & Red River.
Property 8: 1818, 560 Acres (No location given).
Property 9: 1819, 560 Acres (No location given).
Property 10: 1820, 560 Acres (No location given).
Property 11: 1821, 560 Acres (No location given).
Property 12: 1822, 560 Acres (No location given).
Residence: Bet. 1770 - 1791, Hillsboro, Orange County, NC.
More About James Guthrie, Jr. and Jane Smith:
Marriage: 25 February 1791, Hillsborough, Orange County, North Carolina.143
Marriage Fact: 25 February 1791, Andrew Smith Bondsman.
Marriage Notes for James Guthrie, Jr. and Jane Smith:Source: Copy of Original Document from Orange County Register of Deeds
Children of James Guthrie, Jr. and Jane Smith are:
- +Robert Guthrie, b. 17 March 1793, Tennessee144, d. 29 May 1853, Sumner County, Tennessee.